Hayley Osborne:
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Hayley Osborne Show. I hope that you are well today. Wherever you are listening to this from and ready to learn, we are on to Episode 84. Today, I am so proud to bring you a friend of mine and an acquaintance and an awesome human in business, Gillian Fox.
Hayley Osborne:
Gillian and I met back in June at a business retreat for a few days in Port Douglas. And we instantly hit it off. You know, when you meet people in business that you’re like, you know, they are definitely my people. Well, Gillian hit that chord for me. And I couldn’t wait to get her on the podcast, actually, because she is a strong, assertive and successful owner of two incredible businesses who knows women need to put more focus into building their businesses and strategic acumen. She talks about so much with us today. And I am really excited to have her on the show. She’s just knowledge and fire. And she comes with so much experience. And she honestly believes that women are doers. And love a massive checklist. And you’re probably thinking to yourself, yes, we are I am and I have a checklist. And I’m putting my hand up too. But we get caught up in the finer details. And we do. Being strategic requires us to take a long-term view and understand how we can contribute to the commercial outcomes of our businesses. And this is really important that I think more women need to understand and learn that the commercial outcomes are, you know, the driver of like economic success and the success of our businesses.
Hayley Osborne:
Gillian helps really talented women rise and be successful. She’s an author, a keynote speaker, an executive career coach and a women’s career expert. She is the managing director of the Gillian Fox group and a leadership development consultant for some of Australia’s largest organisations. And she also owns another business, your brilliant career. But before she did any of that, though, that’s what we’re going to talk about in today’s episode: she has a cracking start to her career. And I really want to bring this to your ears because I think it is such a beautiful story. She has so many experiences, let’s just call it, a little bit of the Devil Wears Prada. And I guess without further ado, let’s just get into it.
Hayley Osborne:
Hello, Gillian. And welcome to the Hayley Osborne show. I am actually very thrilled to have you here and honoured. How are you?
Gillian Fox:
I’m very well, Hayley. And thank you, thank you for inviting me. I’m really excited to be here and hang out with you today, too. I’m sure we’re gonna have a super chat. I’ve got so many things that we can cover together and it’ll be great.
Hayley Osborne:
I feel like if I didn’t press record, we were talking for ages. And there’s so much juicy content. Like before, we actually hit record and I was like, let’s just press record. And let’s keep chatting because we have a lot in common and you are fire. You are power in everything that you do. So if people don’t know that you are listening, who you are and what you do, I would love for you to tell us.
Gillian Fox:
Sure. Well, my name is Gillian Fox, and my business is all about helping women navigate their careers. So we work a lot with women in corporate which I know is quite different to your audience. However, lately, I think a lot of the challenges in navigating your career have a lot of parallels you know, things that cultivating the right relationships, the self-leadership pace, how you deal with the challenges that are presented to your systems and processes, and all those sorts of things. So I have been in this space for 15 years now and helping women really find the confidence in the capabilities to get that next step up in their career and feel really good about it. And before that, I had a career in the wonderful world of magazines. So that was really colourful and fun. And probably the most ideal way to spend the early part of my career. Some parts of it were a little bit like the Devil Wears Prada was superduper. I learned a lot there that I think has helped me in this path today. Because I have to navigate all the complexities of that business environment. I led a team of 140 people, I was responsible for 12 magazines when I started, and I was 31. Baby at the time. And I had a little guy who wasn’t even one at that stage. So, it was a very interesting stage of my career. I did that for a number of years, and then, around my mid-30s, I went out and started my own business. So I’m very passionate about helping women because I know, particularly when you’ve got kids as well, that it can be a tough journey. And there’s a lot of women who have great ambition and great capability. But you know, we all need some help sometimes in figuring out how to be a lot more thoughtful in the way that we unpack some of the things that we want to pull off in our careers.
Hayley Osborne:
I have a question for you. And I think that the people that are listening are very similar, like with, you know, that they’re small business owners, they’re high achievers, they have massive expectations. They’re perfectionists, so what advice would you give to navigate or respond to being a perfectionist as well as a high achiever? I’m one of those people.
Gillian Fox:
What I’m telling you, because I’m a recovering perfectionist myself, so I can speak very authentically from this space. And I bet you do have lots of perfectionists Hayley, like I bet you do you think about, but I just think this is such a showstopper for people. But a lot of people tend to wear it as a badge of honour because they believe it has enabled them to achieve the success they have to date. But here’s the difference. You can achieve great things in your career or in your life by being a perfectionist. And I honestly believe if I look back on my career, I pulled off some great things. But you achieve it with lots of hustle and lots of fear in the tank. And there’s a very different journey to wanting to achieve things joyfully. And being that perfectionist, I remember my mantra, Hayley you kill yourself laughing and it’s my mantra was do it really well, or don’t do it at all. Now think about how that plays out.
Hayley Osborne:
Yeah, my thing at the moment is that done is better than perfect, which is like, the opposite.
Gillian Fox
Yep, and I love that you said because it opens up possibilities rather than this extreme style of thinking, where you say to yourself, well, I just, it just won’t be good enough. I mean, think of social media, right? So they get their strategy. And now they have to create the posts and put themselves out there. If you’re going to be a perfectionist about it, you’re going to be incredibly judgmental and operate with a high level of fear in nailing that to the level that you want. And you’re more likely to not like the process, and you might pull it off, but it’s probably going to be more arduous than it needed to be. And your progress is going to be slower. So I think the misnomer in it all is we think that perfectionism is the same as high achieving, but it’s not. It’s great to have high standards, but you can’t operate with that level of fear. You’ve got to have that capacity, to back yourself to be able to go, you know what may not be, it may not be to the standard that I want. But I’m actually going to go in. I’m going to do my absolute best to give it a red-hot go and hope it lands where I need it.
Hayley Osborne:
Yeah, let’s strategies. What would be your number one strategy to like, help women deal with that, to overcome that move through it get to the other side?
Gillian Fox:
Yeah, the question that I absolutely got obsessed with that helped today, Hayley, is what is the worst case scenario? Like super simple, but think about that: like what is the worst case scenario? I’m gonna make this business phone call. They’re rude to me. They say no. Maybe they mean can I deal with any of those things? Not nice things, but can I actually deal with those things? I can deal with them. They’re not going to break my career. You know what I mean? It might be a moment that I don’t enjoy that I’ll be getting on with the show, I can assure you. And when you deal with the downside, like that is the worst case scenario, it kind of allows the fear to draw, and to step into that place of, I’m getting on with things. I’m just going to be more action-orientated and make things happen for me now. And I just think there’s such beauty in that you got to create thought strategies that are going to help you keep moving forward. I really believe that you need to cultivate confidence.
Hayley Osborne:
Yeah, I think women in general, as opposed to men, are actually quite hard on ourselves. I know I am. And if you were to ask the same thing to a male, they’d be like, Just do it. What are you worried about? Just do it? It’s like, what? Okay, it’s that easy. It actually is that easy. So I talk a lot about confidence and having the confidence to show up, you know, through your marketing and things like that. And I also say, you know, you can’t wait until you’re confident to show up because that isn’t a strategy that never you will never be confident. So you’ve got to do the showing up to actually feel that confidence. What what do you say to people to become more confident because this is your jam?
Gillian Fox:
And I feel like it’s a bit overused. And the same with impostor syndrome, right? So they’re so quick to label themselves. I’m an imposter. It’s my problem. I’m an impostor. And I totally empathise with that. And I say this with great affection. Honestly, I do and empathy at the same time. But would any of us feel more confident if we had the skills to be more influential? If we built our strategic and business acumen? If we had strategies to deal with the challenges in our work? I dare say we weren’t. So, my approach to confidence when I’m working with the women in our career, career programmes is to break it down. It’s like, well, let’s get practical, you know, where are the gaps? What are the practical things that you can do more or less of or differently that are gonna really give you your power when you’re in that work environment? If you’re sitting in a meeting with senior stakeholders, for example, and you have the tools to engage them with a more elevated business conversation, where you’re more compelling, talking about things, feel more confident. It’s just that I’m ready to be in the same way, Hayley that you help your clients. You’re giving them all these frameworks and goals and tools and skills. That creates confidence. There’s no doubt about it.
Hayley Osborne:
It’s easy to look at somebody’s like one or your one and compare that to somebody else’s 20. It’s very easy, but I feel like if you can stay in your own lane, there’s nobody else in that lane. So stay in your lane, like do competitive research, look around, but stay in your lane. Because as a thought leader, no one can ever be you. No one’s in that lane. And that is a massive amount of confidence that should build, you know internally.
Gillian Fox:
Yeah, I think that’s great advice, particularly because it keeps you focused on the right things. And I think that’s one of the when you go into the comparison game, you know, what you do you start thinking about the things that you’re doing really well because your filter is looking at what they’re doing well, so you need a circuit breaker.
Hayley Osborne:
Yeah, absolutely.
Gillian Fox:
It has to do with intentional thinking. And I know that you know, people talk about this all the time. But like imagine, Hayley, you and I want to crack our 5k time for 30 minutes. Okay, that’s our goal. And we both turn up to the race, a 5k pipe run. And we both just go over the 5k. And you look at that experience, and you say, Well, that was amazing. I love the race atmosphere was incredible. Running alongside everyone on this beautiful morning.
Hayley Osborne:
We’re both runners. For those of you who don’t know, I run and Gillian runs as well. So we’re talking about running and getting like a sub, you know, sub time a good time. Okay, perspective.
Gillian Fox:
Yeah, we probably need to clear that up. Thank you. So let’s say you say that it’s a super positive experience, and I walk away from it going, I didn’t get my goal. So disappointed in myself. And, you know, that’s the kind of way You’ve got to catch yourself, right? Because those thoughts and really sitting in that mindset that’s going to deplete your confidence. And that’s where I think it counts hanging around with the right people, like, you know what I mean, you gotta have people that, you know, a gear that way, because they will always inspire you to think more positively. And just see your potential, a little bit more happy clients? Definitely.
Hayley Osborne:
I like to think that I do. Yeah. Because there is, you know, I have asked out for a lot of feedback on how like my clients feel, and how, like, the membership is going in everything. And in that, the most common thing is your energy, Hayley. And like how you, I guess, exude that into the community. And that gives us energy. And that’s lovely. That’s lovely. Sorry, I wanted to ask you. You had a team of 140 at, you know, probably Australia’s biggest magazine house. Why did you start your own business? And like, what did that look like? How did that evolve? Because that would be that would have been a massive leap for you. So there are probably people listening that are, like, hugely successful in their corporate careers tell you about what your journey into moving and crying, like, oh, but you’ve built two very successful businesses, and you should be so proud. And for those listening to I’m going to link everything about Gillian that you can stalk her in the show notes, and we’ll talk about that afterwards.
Gillian Fox:
it’s funny, and I think people have a lot of limiting beliefs around changing career paths because I did make a radical shift in my career path. When I was at uni, I didn’t ask to grow. And then I started studying law and I thought, that’s what I should be doing. And I didn’t like it. And I came from a family that worked in media. And I ended up marrying a man who worked in media. He still works in media. And so I kind of fell into it. I thought it was so much fun. I just had so much fun. But then we got to this point. And it was after Ali, who is now 21 was born that I was offered this gig to launch an incredible publication in Australia. It should have been like the dream thing, the thing that, you know, like the career opportunity that makes your heart sing. And it didn’t, it just didn’t. And I was profoundly surprised how just I wasn’t, wasn’t affected by it. Anyway, I went home. And I shared this with John, my husband. And I said I think it’s a sign. I think it’s a sign that my time has come to an end because I can’t operate in this Space and not be super passionate. And I know it looks like a super opportunity. But John, I’ve been thinking about starting a leadership organisation. And I would really like to resign on Monday. To his credit, he said, he asked me more questions about him, obviously. And he’s credited as okay. Okay, I had a six-week period that I had to work out. And then I had no qualifications, Hayley, I had nothing. And I stepped out, I went and got some qualifications, you know, coaching, and all of that. And I just had this view, which really came from my business experience more than anything around what people needed. I had some good mentors and all of that I went to design programmes. And off I went, and I did not have any business for three months, and it scared the pants off me, honestly scared the pants off me. I had a massive network. Everyone was happy to see me however I wasn’t getting the bookings. And then, as I was getting quiet, maybe you know, what am I going to do? And then I got a great piece of business from the Gold Coast. And it was a really solid piece of business. And it kind of got me locked and loaded. It took me 12 months to deliver this piece of business and it got me locked and loaded. And you know what I mean by performing, but it was hard. Loved it Hayley and there was no point in time that I questioned. Should I be doing this? It was always a good business fit for me to start my own business and even today, I just love every part of my career and I feel like the best is still to come in which is very energising. When you are so excited about what you can do when what’s possible in your career, I’m sure you feel the same.
Hayley Osborne:
Yeah, I’m really passionate about what I do. I’m really passionate about helping small businesses. So let’s talk about how you’ve got the Gillian Fox group, that is your business, and you also have your brilliant career.
Gillian Fox:
That’s right.
Gillian Fox:
So that’s the corporate side, the Gillian Fox group, because we do a lot of stuff in organisations. And our work there is all about helping those companies get more women into the leadership pipeline. Okay. So we go in and we, we run women’s leadership programmes, sponsorship programmes, we do a lot of executive coaching, and that’s a thing. And then your Brilliant career in public programmes. And that’s where our signature programme is to rise and accelerate. It’s a 90-day career programme, where we go through so many tools and all that for the staff at the lovely community of like-minded women that come to this. And, yeah, it’s really where I see the future of the business going. I’m very excited about that side of business because I just feel there’s a need for women to acquire the skills that they don’t actually teach you. In those leadership programmes internally. And some of those more generic courses, like how to deal with office politics. You mean, well, how do you cultivate confidence when you’ve got a boss? That’s been a bit belittling, you know? Or how do you lean in and speak up? Like, I get theoretically, you need to do that. But what do I say? So I think there’s so much opportunity for women to be so much more confident and skilled in the way that they navigate their careers. And that’s what I love focusing on with the rise programme.
Hayley Osborne:
I always feel like as I was entering corporate, like, I worked in Sydney for five years, I worked on some of the biggest alcohol brands in the world. And going into that space was very daunting. And I came across things by never had in my life, very confronting, you know, it is a I don’t want to say this, but it is a bit of a dog eat dog world, if you do not have your wits about you. And you have big dreams when you do play in corporate. And so what you do is give women the opportunity to be confident to show up to not let those things sort of bother you. And I always wished, like at that time of my life, that I would have been in my late 20s. I think I wish I had something like that to teach me but I got thrown under the bus hard. And you know, It’s sink or swim and Lucky I swim. Yeah, like Rose above all of that, because there are things you you can’t foresee happening. When you you know, you got big dreams you want to do, but there’s always someone else that will come into when you’re, you know, in that situation. So it’s yeah, I definitely think it’s needed. And women probably need a little bit more than what men do. Just to have those opportunities.
Gillian Fox:
I think we’re different. We’re different. Well, the research tells us that, you know, we respond to things differently. And different things happen in organisations differently as well. One of the pieces of research is that you know, men will be leaders just in general, but they’re mostly men. They will sponsor or advocate and recommend people like them with careers like that. And it’s unconscious bias. But if you’re an executive leadership team that is all blokes, baby boomer blokes, then your inclination is going to be to support other blokes with similar careers to yours. And they might be the most talented females in that organisation, but they’re not on their radar. So you can see there’s some profound showstoppers, you know, for organisations to overcome because the research tells us that women have three times as many mentors as men, but men have twice as many sponsors. Sponsors are the ones that are going to get your next promotion and gig within corporate. So there’s there’s different things to it. The experience for men and women is different. It’s just different.
Hayley Osborne:
And that translates as well across to owning a business. The experiences of men and women are different. And you know, men have their golf game. And they do their business on the golf course. And what is the female version of the golf game? What is that? I don’t know.
Gillian Fox:
I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know what it is, either. But I think I love it when women do help each other. Like I think there is such community and power in doing that and not being cagey about it. Just like genuinely stepping in and supporting each other. I think there’s such there’s such value there. And I think if you can lead by example, doing that, I think we can actually cultivate more of it.
Hayley Osborne:
I’ve got here the elusive work-life balance. So that’s, that’s a balance. It’s a blend. But I have spoken about having good habits and things recently on the podcast in terms in relation to getting consistent on your social media and how to create those habits, stacking habits and rituals like what does that mean to you? What is the power of having good rituals in your life to help you accelerate in the areas that you want to?
Gillian Fox:
I would like to ask you your three top marks in a second because I’m so genuinely curious. Yeah, I am such a believer in this. And I think it’s, you know, I’ve had to, I’ve always been a little bit way inclined, but probably the last ten years, I definitely see the value in planning and good habits and rituals and all of that. So for example, the morning and I am a morning person is very important to me in getting set up. So I have a very, very disciplined if you’d like morning routine, but I love it. I get up. It’s not unusual for me to get up at half past four. And I love it, the place is quiet. It’s like that moment of serenity. And the first thing I do, which a lot of people would argue with is I head to the coffee shop. So I can’t wait to eat and then I head to the coffee machine and then I will sit down. I often journal, so I will sit down. And it is from this morning’s session. I will sit down and I will journal and I will also find out the day. So there are two things that happen there. And then I jump into my exercise kit and I normally go out the door by no later than a quarter to 6 am. I’m back at about ten past seven. So my mornings are beautiful. Like I love them. Like sometimes I might put some music on journaling. Occasionally, I’ll meditate. I kind of went through that phase but now I just find journaling very peaceful. You know, I can be forward-focused, I can think short term I can think long term. I can do whatever I like. There are no boundaries and that morning pace is so important for getting my head in the right place for the day. And planning and planning days and I have a lot of rigour to the way that I do things. I think more than most. And I don’t know if it’s right, it’s not right or wrong. Hayley. I think we’re all different. You know what I mean? And that’s what I have discovered. That works for me. What about you? Tell me about you.
Hayley Osborne:
Oh, my rituals, so they’ve changed a lot in the last three years; I would say I am still very much a morning person. Prior to having my young children who are one and two, I would be dressed and out the door either for a walk or a run early so I would be up at five 530 and out the door definitely just before six for exercise whether that be in the gym or whatever. But so right now in my life and I don’t think that there’s a wrong or right way but I do feel like your day. The way that your day unfolds is going to be very much determined by how you start your day. And so for me now I try and get to the gym early but my life is so different from what my children need to be. I need to do everything for them. And so it’s the little things. I am up for coffee first thing straightaway and I always make sure that I am fully dressed and ready for the day. I get dressed and I am not a tracksuit and T-shirt kind of a girl ever never. And so, and I’m not a I’m not a yoga pants kind of girl either. Okay, so I’m dressed. I’m talking about a pair of jeans or lounge pants that look nice. And I will always like to be properly dressed and I will do like my hair. I will do makeup or whatever. Maybe not mascara, just some BB cream and I always say I’m always ready to go for the day. And that might mean I stay home for the day, I could not leave the house, but I’m ready for anything, whether I have kids in tow or not. And that just sets me up for a really beautiful day so that when they take a nap or whatever, I am so ready to go straight into either working or whatever little thing that I can get done in that power time I get done. But I always make sure that I’m ready. I have really good intentions at the beginning of the day. So that’s what keeps me I guess, in with a positive mindset. And I have a really good head start.
Gillian Fox:
Yeah, love that Hayley and you do every post. I see. You look absolutely gorgeous. You have a great sense of personal style anyway. But you do look switched on and ready to go. And I think it is a discipline that says that I am happy for the day to unfold. You know what I mean? There’s, there’s such a presence and energy just in that single act of choosing to look nice.
Hayley Osborne:
A couple of times a week, I go for a run. So I’m the transition of getting up and getting dressed to do that is less than five minutes. But I’ll always have a coffee before I go. But and so that intention is still there. And I’m a bit I’m a I’m a lot kinder to myself now, after having children, I’m still very hard on myself, if I, if I was a boss, I would I am a boss. But if I, if I would be, I am a nasty boss to myself. Does that make sense? I am very driven. I’m very hard on myself. And I have big goals. And so I think like, those things will play a part in, in achieving them, you know, you set the small intentions at the start of the day. So I think every I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way. I think you’ve got to do like what works for you. And I love that you journal as well. And you, you know, meditate, meditate and realise that wasn’t? It’s not for everyone. No. And that’s okay.
Gillian Fox:
I think you Hayley, like, you know, when I think back when Ollie was a little guy, like, life is so different, right? You’re not. I mean, you have different phases of your life. And I have so much more flexibility now because he’s 21. At home, and he’s still parenting because I’m except, but you know, it’s a very different existence to having little people in the house. And so you need to constantly tweak and figure out things, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s, it is a journey, and you can’t think you’re just going to copy and paste what looks good over there to over here. Because I honestly believe that the people who have the most successful lives if you like, when it comes to family life, they’re very collaborative in you know, talking to their partner and going, this is important to me, I’ll support you hear, you’re not I mean, you’re kind of working as a team, figuring out things and you know, you sound like you’re you’ve got an incredible husband who achieves great business success, and you’re very ambitious. So you know what I mean? You have to consciously create the path for both of you to know what’s important.
Hayley Osborne:
We juggle; it is a juggle, but it is a supportive juggle. Like, I’m very supportive of him. And he’s equally very supportive of me, which works so much. So I love that. So I’ve got a couple more things I want to ask you. What’s that? What’s the one thing that you are most proud of? Business-wise? Yeah. Um, you do have a book. Okay. You’re very well accomplished. I think you don’t sell yourself enough. Everyone who is listening, you need to stalk this woman because she is fire. Honestly, I feel like you downplay yourself. You have a book. You’ve got two amazing businesses.
Gillian Fox:
proud of? I really think, and you’ll, you’ll relate to this because I think you’re very similar in this way. I’m most proud and it’s a quality rather than one thing. I’m most proud of my courage. Yes. Because I think it takes a lot of courage to do new things and know that no one’s gonna give you a little feedback. Talk at the end. You’re running your own business. There. Good job, Gil, you know, so proud of you. Like you’ve got to manage all of that. And I think there is. I mean, you look at the stats. So many people go out of small business because they can’t. They just can’t find the tenacity or the resilience to deal with it. So it’s not for the faint-hearted and You’re like my superpower. And I don’t talk about it at all. But I feel like my superpower has always been my courage. It’s kind of like that, well, I’m just gonna give it a go, you know, may or may not yell about it from the grandstands. But I’m just going to quietly step into that space and give it a red hot go.
Hayley Osborne:
Because to remember, nobody is going to come on, not come and knock on your door and go, um, hello, you’ve graduated to the next level in your life now or in your business. Off you go, you’re now the CEO, and you need to, like own that. But you need to be the one to crown yourself.
Gillian Fox:
Absolutely. You know, you really got to have your own back and just keep finding that strength. And of course, you’re gonna wobble, like everyone wobbles. Right? But then you need to recalibrate and get back on the path again. And you got to own that, you know, maybe because staying in that space of for me, or this is so hard, like in my mind, just like you I got big dreams, like, it’s just going to slow things down Hayley.
Hayley Osborne:
All right. So, where do you see your business in five years?
Gillian Fox:
I see that Your Brilliant Career really taking off. To be quite honest with you, I think we will have a massive community with more offerings that help women really cultivate the brilliant careers that they want. I think we’ll have evergreen programmes, possibly a membership. I just think we are going to have so many more services that will really feed into what the pain points are. For women, you know, who want a great career is only attract women who do have an appetite for their career, you know, maybe they won’t come to us unless they’re already quite high achieving and wanting to pull things off. And that’s who I want. You don’t I mean, and we have some really specific beliefs in the business around, you know, salesmanship, you can do it without turning into someone you don’t like, it’s all possible. You can navigate office politics, and you need to. And it doesn’t mean that you know, again, you have to turn into someone that you don’t admire in the business. We believe style is really important, just like your point about waking up in the morning and dressing yourself. So you’re in that space of operating well. We just really love the idea of helping women have the skills and the toolkit to help themselves. Yeah, yeah, it’s great. I just love it. And we attract beautiful women into the community, too.
Hayley Osborne:
You can tell, you can tell that you love it, you can tell that you’re really passionate about it. You light up when you talk about it and smile. And you’re just your energy’s so lovely to be around. Gillian, thank you so much for joining me today. So if people want to find you, and I like to say stalk you and all the things, how can our listeners connect with you? Super easy.
Gillian Fox:
It’s all your brilliant career. So jump on Instagram, your brilliant career, same as Facebook. And then the website is your brilliant career, our programmes. There are free blogs, there are lots of freebies on there, our podcast is there, and Your Brilliant Career, like it’s all there. Thank you.
Hayley Osborne:
Thank you so much.
Gillian Fox:
It was such a pleasure. And Hayley. I just admire what you’re doing so much, and the passion and energy that I mean, it’s just so evident. And I’m not even up close and personal. I’m in a different stage. Look at your Instagram account. And I just think it’s fantastic. And I have no doubt that you’re making a tremendous impact on all these small business owners. So fantastic.
Links:
Your Brilliant Career Instagram
