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Episode 76: Opinion led copywriting is the future for your small biz with Nadine Nethery

August 9, 2023

Hello and welcome. Welcome back to another episode of the podcast. This is episode 76. You are here listening to the Hayley Osborne show with me, Hayley and also with me today, my gorgeous guest, Nadine Netherby. She is amazing. She runs a business called Can Do Content. I wanted to get her on today because there are a lot of bars and if you’ve been under a pillow lately, we are talking about all things artificial intelligence. Now, I don’t specifically want to name any particular brand of AI. Because you know, I do think it is not just one particular brand in the market. I don’t use that particular brand in the market. You know what? I’m gonna say it, ChatGPT. I use a brand for I called Jasper and that is everything. And then some for me, it helps me save so much time in research and other things. I don’t want to spoil this episode. I wanted to get Nadine on today because she is an audience-driven copywriter. And I wanted to get her on to talk about how artificial intelligence has come into play for businesses like the deans, and my goodness; this is absolute fire. She is a copywriter and brand messaging strategist for female founders who want to intentionally attract a lot and retain their dream customers. Her strategic take on audience research, copywriting and messaging turns every brand touchpoint into genuine connections that drive sales, celebrate loyalty, and surround you with keen brand advocates who happily do the word spreading for you. And that’s what it’s all about, right? We want to drive sales, we want to create genuine connections and we do want people to spread the word of mouth is everything and it all starts with your copywriting. Over the past seven years, Nadine has given global e-commerce success stories, game-changing startups and industry-disrupting service providers the words to absolutely shine and the strategies to build a sustainable business long-term. So before I jumped the gun and talk about all things AI and copywriting, let’s get into today’s episode so we can really learn about Nadine’s zone of genius and how amazing she is. She and I have been connected as online kind of besties for a couple of years now. We started following each other on social media, and it’s just kind of grown ever since. And I’m really excited to have her here for today’s episode. So without further ado, here we are.

Introduction:

You are listening to the Hayley Osborne show with me, Hayley, your host. This is your place to learn how to become the superhero marketer in your business to become the number one in your local community, both online and your surrounding areas. Every week, I’ll be teaching you how you can achieve the best out of your marketing your business and be the most fearless superhero version of yourself. Small business owners are the backbone of the economy. And I’m here to demystify local area marketing to help you reach more customers, between myself from South Australia and my wildly inspiring guests from across the world. I’m so excited to discuss all things marketing your business with you, I believe in you. So let’s get started.

Transcription:

Hayley Osborne:

Hi, Nadine and welcome to the Hayley Osborne show. I am so glad that you are here with me.

Nadine Nethery:

So cool to be here and finally digitally meet you in person, you know, that semi-weird online relationship?

Hayley Osborne:

Like we were just saying before, we both like been stalking each other, and it’s like, I feel like I know you so well.

Nadine Nethery:

It’s strange, isn’t it? You feel like someone, and you actually have neither spoken.

Hayley Osborne:

Welcome. I would love you to tell our listeners who you are and what you do in your words,

Nadine Nethery:

I am Nadine. I’m the founder of Can Do Content and a strategic email and website copywriter for female founders who want to intentionally attract delight and retain their dream customers. Audience-driven messaging and copy is my absolute jam.

Hayley Osborne:

The reason that I wanted to welcome you and have you as a guest on the podcast was because I’ve seen in my world as well that there are lots of different people I’ve worked with who are copywriters who are freaked out about AI. And I wanted to get you in because this is your, like, jam, this is your zone. AI has come in, and I’ve got my own opinions about AI, which we’ll go into, but I want you to talk about it. I want you to shed the light on your thoughts, feelings future. What does that look like for you as a copywriter?

Nadine Nethery:

Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I don’t share the, you know, scared attitude that so many copywriters have because, ultimately, it is just going to mean copy and content is going to be more accessible for more business owners. You obviously have to know how to work the tools. So that’s where the strategy and the research piece come in. So, it’s not going to replace you as a brand owner. You need to know your brand, your audience, particularly inside and out, to actually be able to use the tool in a way that creates something meaningful for your business. And even for us copywriters. So, I have been playing with it just from an ideation point of view. So, it’s not, you know, writing my copy for me. My clients still get my strategy and my creative thinking behind their copy, but it is just helping me overcome blank page syndrome, like so many of us experience and it is helping free up more space in my business for other things. So, I use it for ideation, as I said, even, you know, shitty excuse, the swearing, shitty first drafts.

Hayley Osborne:

Fine. That’s totally fine. 

Nadine Nethery:

Really speeding up that process. As I said, it’s super, super critical as a brand owner, as a user, to know what you want it to produce, to prompt it in a meaningful way, and create something that is on a brand that speaks to your audience and is even usable in the bigger picture of your brand.

Hayley Osborne:

And I do find, like, So my take on it is it does prevent writer’s block, right? And that’s one of the biggest time wasters in any small business’s journey and content creation. Part of copywriting is not going anywhere at all anytime soon, right? Because I always say 99% of people will Google you before they pick up the phone, then you’re not you may not have like a story on your Instagram happening right then and there. So, the only way people are going to learn about you, your personality, your business is through your words. And so, AI, I feel, is great for writer’s block, but it will never be you as a business owner. And for all the copywriters listening and even anyone that’s in business, like you, unfortunately, you still have to do the work or work with somebody like yourself, who is like that’s your zone of genius, and that can light up the words on a page to bring it to life because AI cannot do that for you.

Nadine Nethery:

Yeah, and as business owners, I think AI and all that mediocre content that’s going to flood. The internet is opening even more opportunities. Business owners that want to go above and beyond and connect with their audience on a deeper level are going to stand out by sharing their unique point of view, you know, their vision, their mission, why they’re in business, the bigger picture, even, you know, unique angles on their niche on their industry. It’s all about stepping away from that how-to content, you know, the ten steps to x y Zed because that’s what’s going to be increasing, because it’s easy to create, you know, AI can tap into what’s already out there. It’s all about shifting to that opinion piece and being a thought leader in your field. And that is ultimately where people are going to resonate with and connect with because it goes beyond something quickly whipped up that is just so bland.

Hayley Osborne:

The grayscale stuff is dead. And I do feel like, you know, there’s still room for everybody to grow. And the futurists are like predicting that online learning and this space has like exponential growth in the coming years. And I do feel that if you don’t embrace that thought, leadership and be an amazing storyteller, you do get left behind, you will get left behind because of AI because everyone’s just going to be pumping out generic content. So don’t be that person.

Nadine Nethery:

Going back to strategy, I know you’re huge on strategy when it comes to marketing. It’s even more critical now to do that groundwork for your brand and really hone in on your tone of voice, how you show up the brandism, and the terms that are uniquely you that people recognise you for. You can then infuse that into any AI-generated copy. And, really getting to know your audience because I asked ChatGPT a bit cheeky the other week and asked it about its limitations and ChatGPT told me in person that it, unfortunately, has lots of biases because, you know, it picks up everything from content that’s already out there. Unfortunately, there are biases scattered across the internet. It told me, you know, it can’t feel emotions, and it’s lacking empathy. And that is a major red flag for copy. Because we all know, copy that really connects with your audience needs to lead with empathy with emotions and connect and tap into that mindset, your dream customer’s feelings. If you rely exclusively on ChatGPT, you’re going to fall flat. And that’s where you know you’re going to need someone of genius and your research into your audience comes into the picture prompted in a way that goes deeper. Or then alternatively, you know, tweaking your ChatGPT gives him the actual expressions and the terms that your audience is using to make it tangible, relatable.

Hayley Osborne:

I’ve used ChatGPT before, and I played with it because I taught a masterclass inside the membership on AI. But I use a program called Jasper. And I find that as a research tool to be amazing. And for my solo podcast episodes, some of them I will research using Jasper. It is great because then, like, if I’m not super up to speed on a particular topic that I want to talk about, it cuts out like three hours of research for me, but you will never I could never like just read from the page into a podcast and just push it out there it would be like that’s not me, that’s not my personality. I think as consumers, especially when you are ingesting words on a page where you can sniff bullshit a mile away like we’re getting so much better at that. If you think that AI can solve all of your problems in terms of the way you show up in your words, it will solve like 1%. You still have to exercise your thought leadership and I think that that’s brilliant because it cuts out a lot of, like, what’s the word, like the people that just come in and leave like the industry straightaway, so the weak zebra marketing whatever that is, you know like so I feel like you’re for copywriters like and for marketers and or anyone in business there will always be a place for you because you are human and when you know your stuff, you know your stuff.

Nadine Nethery:

Yeah. And ultimately, you know, you still need to know how to piece words together. Yeah, how to structure your sales page, how to guide the reader and support the reader on that on that journey. So that’s where I think for us copywriters it’s going to filter out, those copywriters who are coming in who think copywriting is all about creativity and, you know, having funky and coming out with a catchy tagline without any strategies to back it up. You know, that was sort of the groundwork and now the principles of how to structure a sales page, how to structure a website in a way that supports the reader, they’re going to still have a place, people are still going to appreciate them. Because ultimately, a lot of us don’t want to spend time creating our own content. And, you know, I am happy to hand it over as well.

Hayley Osborne:

Yeah. Awesome. I want to know. Tell me a little bit about your business journey as the Nadine, and how you have come to be so passionate about what you do.

Nadine Nethery:

Yeah, it’s like many copywriter journeys. I’ve come into it via many detours. I have a background in corporate communications and marketing. And worked in corporate PR for a global car brand for close to a decade. So travelled the world going to monitor shows, you know, car launches in Italy, Paris Motor Show loved it. That’s where sort of my initial love for writing came in, you know, press releases, and really finding that unique, unique angle for products. And then, yeah, I was made redundant life happens when my second one was three months old, which was a bit of a shock to the system.

Hayley Osborne:

This is a common story that I hear.

Nadine Nethery:

It is, isn’t it? Yeah, the amount of people, especially women in business, I’ve met who went to stuff it, I’m doing my own thing. I’m just not doing it anymore. Patrick Coleman, unfortunately, yeah, it sent me into an identity crisis going, is it me, you know, like, then I’d rather emotional hormones with the three months old, walking around. I just, at that point, decided I was going to do something for myself didn’t quite know what that looked like. In the meantime, I took a full-time gig because you have to pay the bills, unfortunately, and I did corporate sales for Australia’s largest retailer, which gave me a completely different perspective, than I think I’d ever done before. But yeah, I’ve really enjoyed the selling side of things, and even, you know, retaining customers when it came to renewing licenses, etc. So that sales perspective, and then ultimately, one day at work, it just clicked, I’m like, I really can, I’m good at writing, I love the sales side of things. Let’s look into content marketing, something that combines the two. I did a content marketing course on the side, you know, on my lunch break learning. And part of that course was a copywriting module. And just going into detail around, you know, principles and how to position things and how people are actually paying people like this is a job I actually do this, this is genius, and yes, are Yeah, I started on the side while still working full time. And at that point, being three months pregnant with my third. I know, right, like a challenge, started a side hustle and thought, you know, let’s see how this goes. And somehow outlines people who trusted me and we were happy to get me on board. Some of them are still clients today, which is amazing.

Hayley Osborne:

This shows how amazing you are, right? When you have those long clients

Nadine Nethery:

It’s so cool to see. You know my brands have evolved over the years.  The client’s brands have grown amazingly, so it’s so rewarding. I just started doing everything for everyone. Until I worked out. I actually love emails and websites are the most and talk a tone of copywriting courses just to get my skills up, learn the strategies, and then quit my full-time gig after maternity leave and when I’m just going to go full-time. So that was during the pandemic. And I’ve never looked back, and I love working with all the amazing women really, you know, going after their dreams and as you said, there’s so many that have been burned in the corporate world. Now living their dream and really following their passion. And I love being a part of it and helping them share their genius.

Hayley Osborne:

Yeah, it’s so funny, like, just a segue story. I had a corporate marketing role as well, for I’ve transitioned a little bit working with some of the biggest brands in the world. I also worked for the State Government of South Australia at quite a high level and not that I was burnt by it, but then decided to go out on my own. Earlier in the year, it came full circle. And they have been stalking me on LinkedIn and approached me to be a part of an International Women’s Day video. How circle, I know? And I was like, this is a moment, I need to sit in this moment and really appreciate what has happened, how I would sit there and be like, I wish that I could do this, and then slowly, slowly do it. Then that’s kind of like that moment of, did I make it? Like, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s crazy. And it’s important to, like, I think, celebrate your wins. Because in your world, they’re massive, right? In the pandemic, which shifted your life. And running a business with a family. Like, it’s hard. Don’t get me wrong, but it also allows you to be flexible and to show up for your kids, which they need. But for everyone listening, like how do you think that you? Because through the pandemic and young children and running a business and then AI, how do you keep a resilient business mindset while juggling all the things? Because you’ve got three kids really successful business. And, you know, you’re not afraid; I’ve seen just even from your like automatic email response that comes back. It’s like, I’m busy with my kids right now doing this, like living on like acreage and chasing after them, and I’ll give to you on Tuesday, and I was like, oh, so direct, I love this. 

Nadine Nethery:

It took me a while to get there. To be honest, you know, it’s an evolution. As I’ve said, it’s been seven years and you know, boundaries weren’t really my strength when I started. So, you know, juggling too many projects, taking everything, saying yes to everything. And it’s really taken a conscious effort to shift to even, you know, a way I’ve worked with my clients that really works with my schedule and with my boundaries and making sure that I’m there for my kids and I can have freedom in my calendar to move things around. So, it’s been a conscious effort, but I do love even involving my kids. Like my daughter, I call her my flying gifting manager. She loves being involved in the gifts and, you know, boxing them all up. I think it’s a great thing for us women to teach our kids, especially, as you know, our little girls, that we can be. You can be anything you want to be and you can craft a career around your passion and what you want to do, and you can be both a mum and business owner and still feel like you’re mastering both on the golf course some days, it’s, it’s a massive juggle. Let’s not sugarcoat that, but the majority of the time, I feel like I have things together, which is great in the corporate world. Like when I was working full time, with you know, two kids at school and pregnant, I was constantly chasing my tail. I was close to burnout, constantly stressed, you know, leaving early, my daughter was in before and after school care. Five days a week, which looking back on it, I feel terrible about it. I know, she’s fine. She’s not scarred. But nowadays. You know, as I said, I’m there for my kids. And I still get to do what I love doing. And I feel so much more fulfilled.

Hayley Osborne:

For people listening who are thinking of either going out on their own or in a similar situation, this is a beautiful example. And just, I’m sure, your world with three children and a business is chaos, but you just roll with that chaos and turn the chaos into great. Like you turn the chaos into something beautiful that isn’t actually chaos and you move straight through the middle and talk about having your children involved. I just attended, which we talked about before we press record a retreat in Port Douglas with Tina Tower. She I’m a part of her mastermind group and her children were there. Her two boys. One of them did the wonderful country director welcome table giving, ticking everyone off. They were roaming with the mic. They were doing all her reels, taking little videos. They were fully immersed in the whole conference, and they had the week off of school or whatever. And it’s like they probably learnt more in that week. Just watching their mum on stage do her thing and like, if anything, I take away from women in business that have children and not everybody does but there’s something in that of like bringing your like internal community along the journey with you, even if that’s just you and your partner, I think it’s a beautiful thing. And I think embrace it rather than like push-pull. That’s something that you do, which is beautiful.

Nadine Nethery:

You know what, even showing your daughter that you’re not just a mum, and that there’s another side to you, then just making lunches and doing the dishes and cooking, etc. It’s been such a great journey to come from this side hustle to where I am today.

Hayley Osborne:

Another thing in terms of, like, educating and upskilling yourself along the way, do you have a mentor? Have you had a mentor? At what point, like, how did you get a feel for it? Like, where does that sit with you in terms of upskilling? for yourself?

Nadine Nethery:

I constantly invest in courses and programs because, you know, there’s always something to learn and a new focus in my business. As I said, early on, I invested in Kirstie Fenton’s Brian camp. I don’t know whether you’re aware of her, but she’s an amazing copywriter. Her focus is really on, you know, that research piece and consumer psychology. She has really transformed my take on copywriting early on and had a huge influence in the copywriting area of my business, the actual technical skills. And then, I talked about my boundaries of structuring my services in a way that works for me. I invested two years ago. Time flies, I think, about two years ago. That was like the six-month program all about implementing, you know, structure into your business and delivering your services in a way that works around your family. That was with Jordan Peele, so done in his day. What’s the program? I don’t think she’s running anymore in that format.

Hayley Osborne:

You’ve done it yourself. I love that.

Nadine Nethery:

And so now I’m trying to identify the next big thing.

Hayley Osborne:

I do feel like you do need a little bit of a community around you when you run a business, and most of us work from home. And that’s the one thing that I think is missing is the little community vibe and being around like-minded people because you do get that in a workplace. You know, you do get that in the workplace, and you bounce ideas off each other and things. And that’s one of the reasons why I built my membership was to, well, that’s a lie. I built the membership because there was a gap in the market, that I found small businesses. couldn’t afford to work with someone one on one, but they needed like to do the things and upskill themselves. The byproduct of that, though, was the community. And that’s something I’m really proud of the business owners coming together. I do think it’s important for everyone to, like, lean into learning more because you don’t know what you don’t know. And I feel like, you need to, like, prepare yourself for what’s around the corner. And it’s important to continue to educate and upskill yourself.

Nadine Nethery:

And it’s so easy to get set in your ways as well in your ways of doing things. There are always more efficient ways of doing things. Time to save. So huge fan of just, you know, even trying new things, trying new systems that find out about because you never know how they can transform your workflows and your automation. And again, you know, being a one-woman showtime is my absolute luxury. If I can save a few minutes by automating x y z, I’m up for it.

Hayley Osborne:

Systems and processes, everything I know. What’s the one thing that you’re most proud of? In your business? Please tell us.

Nadine Nethery:

Oh, probably the long-term relationships I’ve established with my clients. A lot of them, as I said, they keep coming back for seconds and thirds. And I feel like I’m a long-term part of their business, you know, shouting them out on socials. And it’s a real community. Yeah, that I’ve built around my brand of amazing women, you know, both in the E-commerce space and the service based space and yeah, just proud of the impact that I’m having on women who, when they come to me, quite intimidated by the idea of sharing their story and you know, proudly sharing this on us genius and you know, the impact that they’re having on the world. I think it’s a female thing. We like to play down the impact we’re having, and you know, this little business. That’s where we’re running. You know, I’m just the copywriter, or I mean, I’m just the candle maker, whatever that might look like. I find I give people the confidence just to step out and own their genius.

Hayley Osborne:

This big business that you’re running keep coming back to you is a testament to you because you are so darn good at what you do. So yeah, what’s the one piece of advice that you would give business owners right now?

Nadine Nethery:

Be bold and brave, and own your story, your why because that’s why people come to hear, you know, they don’t necessarily obviously they buy the products, but they ultimately want to connect with you, as the business owner, they want to buy in your into your story, they want to become a part of your journey. So really don’t hide behind the online field tasks that we often like to put up. Just step out as you and on your story. And people are going to either resonate with it, or they’re not, and the people who don’t simply aren’t your people, and the sooner you realise that happier you will be in your business.

Hayley Osborne:

And for those people listening to that are thinking to themselves right now, but I don’t know what my story is. That is what Nadine does. So, you lean into her to help you. Because then, once you own your story, you no longer will have a disconnect between your personality, your website and your copy and the way that you show up. And that will enable you to be able to show up so much easier, so much bolder, and feel like you are stepping into what you think that’s really important. So, work with Nadine, because she’s great. So, on that, I would love you to tell our listeners where they can connect with you. socials website, and if you have something that they can steal from you for free, please tell me.

Nadine Nethery:

You can track me down via my website, candocontent.com. You can also stop me on Instagram @candocontent. And I have an amazing freebie that Hayley’s going to link up in the show notes, all about truly getting to know your audience. You know, I said it’s important for AI. And really speaking to the core of your audience, I have a freebie that delivers you ten strategic survey questions, questions that I use in my one-on-one client projects, very strategic. And they are going to help you capture that essence of, you know, your mindset, your customer mindset and the transformation that you deliver. So you can then wrap it in your copy in your content and in your marketing.

Hayley Osborne:

So, get that. Think about how you would answer the questions and have that as the foundation piece to start the bigger body of work when people come on board to work with you because you do need to start somewhere. That’s a really great piece of that’s such a good irresistible offer. Well, thank you. Cool. All right, Nadine, thank you so much for coming on my podcast. It’s been so lovely talking to you. And I will put all her details in the show notes. And I wish everyone a great day. Thank you so much for coming. 

Nadine Nethery:

Thanks for having me, Hayley

I hope you’ve enjoyed listening to this episode. If you have hit subscribe so you don’t miss any new episodes released every Tuesday. And while you’re there, leave me a review. I would absolutely love to read it. Also, don’t forget to tag me @HayleyKOsborne over on Instagram and share this podcast with your audience so they can get learning too. If you want more, head over to www.Hayleyosborne.com.au/podcast for today’s show notes and links. I’ve also got an awesome free eBook a new one waiting for you on my website, the 10 Essentials every local area marketing plan needs and I will catch you next week for another episode of The Hayley Osborne show.

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